"I don't understand the reference -- 'friend of bill's' "

[16:52:53] <@rkl> i haven't had a true sobreity birthday yet
[16:52:59] <@myopia> oh, really?
[16:53:05] <@myopia> you're a friend of bill's
[16:53:07] <@myopia> ?
[16:53:31] <@rkl> i'm a friend of matt's
[16:53:34] <@myopia> heh
[16:53:43] <@myopia> that's not what i'm asking
[16:53:48] <@myopia> maybe i'm too old, i'm using terminology that the "youngsters" don't understand
[16:53:49] <@rkl> oh
[16:54:02] <@rkl> i'm not a friend of dorothy's
[16:54:05] <@myopia> you "haven't had a true sobriety birthday yet"?
[16:54:12] <@myopia> i didn't ask that either
[16:54:19] <@myopia> i don't know that i want to fuck you
[16:54:28] <@rkl> ...
[16:54:31] <@myopia> you're not local anyway
[16:54:39] <@rkl> i don't understand the reference "friend of bill's"
[16:54:49] <@myopia> friend of bill w's ... alcoholic
[16:54:57] <@rkl> oh
[16:55:18] <@rkl> i don't drink everyday , but i think about drinking everyday
[16:55:23] <@rkl> it's complicated
[16:55:25] <@myopia> heh
[16:55:35] <@myopia> well, that's certainly indicative of something
[16:55:39] <@myopia> THAT can't be denied
[17:03:53] <@myopia> "you are where you're supposed to be"
[17:04:01] <@myopia> people will tell you differently ...
[17:04:07] <@myopia> maybe they're right
[17:04:26] <@myopia> but maybe one shouldn't try to stop drinking until one has absolutely no other choice
[17:05:25] <@myopia> that insures you have the incentive you'll need to do it, and gives you the humility to appreciate how little sobriety offers you
[17:06:00] <@myopia> certainly it's true that if one is an alcoholic, and one continues to drink, one dies
[17:06:35] <@myopia> they say "you have three options -- prison, the nuthouse, or the grave"
[17:06:58] <@myopia> but, it's the same thing
[17:07:20] <@myopia> maybe in prison and the nuthouse, one prays for the grave?
[17:07:26] <@myopia> i don't know
[17:07:47] <@myopia> i spent a night in a drunk tank for starting an argument with a cop, and i didn't like that
[17:08:02] <@myopia> i spent a summer in a nuthouse, and i did like that
[17:08:30] <@myopia> but, not drinking is not the only thing one may do,
[17:08:35] <@myopia> life, also happens to us
[17:09:11] <@myopia> they tell you how hard it is to get sober
[17:09:49] <@myopia> unfortunately no one ever tells you how hard it is to accept AA; how much you're being asked to swallow
[17:10:20] <@myopia> how entirely right it is for you to rebel against it
[17:10:22] <@myopia> natural
[17:10:26] <@myopia> expected
[17:10:30] <@myopia> normal
[17:10:35] <@myopia> necessary to your recovery
[17:11:09] <@myopia> no one tells you what you should be listening for, and what you should be discounting as garbage
[17:11:47] <@myopia> it may be that you never accept AA the same way you see other people do
[17:11:57] <@myopia> and that, too, is part of recovery in AA
[17:12:27] <@myopia> but then it's all the more important to know what to listen to, because what you need to hear is all the more rare
[17:12:37] <@rkl> heh
[17:12:48] <@rkl> i got sent to AA when i got my dui.
[17:12:54] <@myopia> yeah, they do that
[17:12:59] <@rkl> ironically, i wasn't drunk when i got my dui, and didn't have a particular drinking habit.
[17:13:07] <@myopia> you have to get your raffle tickets signed
[17:13:12] <@rkl> yep
[17:13:24] <@rkl> i refused to participate though, as i don't have a belief in a higher power
[17:13:27] <@myopia> takes me back ...
[17:13:37] <@myopia> i don't believe in atheism
[17:13:50] <@myopia> did anyone tell you that AA doesn't require a belief in god
[17:13:59] <@myopia> that AA makes a specific point of that?
[17:14:06] <@rkl> in the bible belt, AA & church are tied in to each other.
[17:14:18] <@myopia> more and more that's true everywhere
[17:14:28] <@myopia> i'm a christian
[17:14:35] <@myopia> christians are asses
[17:14:50] <@myopia> and trying to fuck you over is not christian
[17:16:45] <@myopia> re-read the second step
[17:17:08] <@myopia> it is the most lame piece of literature that has ever been published
[17:17:24] <@myopia> you have to realize that the guys who wrote the 12 & 12 were wet brains
[17:18:04] <@myopia> but, this is particularly where they're trying to show you that you don't need to believe in god
[17:18:31] <@myopia> back in my day, a "beginner's meeting" was a step meeting that only discussed the first 3 steps
[17:18:54] <@myopia> but usually, they manage to do that without ever mentioning that you don't have to believe in God
[17:19:33] <@myopia> one would think that the first place in AA where the word "God" is ever used, it would be important to point out what "the first 100 drunks" meant by that
[17:22:33] <@myopia> actually, in new england ... in my day
[17:22:52] <@myopia> at most, but not all meetings, the only "participation" one COULD do is listen
[17:22:59] <@myopia> and, that way might be for the best
[17:25:19] <@myopia> there were discussion meetings and "stand-up" meetings
[17:25:32] <@myopia> and "stand-up" meetings were the more prevalent
at "stand-up" meetings, there was no discussion
[17:26:30] <@myopia> it is the practice in new england for another AA group to come to your meeting, and members of the group stand at a podium before the meeting and "tell their stories"
At, the end of the meeting, you shook their hands, you thanked them, and you all went to your separate homes
Perhaps, you MAY hang outside on the steps into the meeting hall, drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes, shooting the shit with your friends or (gasp) people who had become your friends that evening But no one asked you to do that
[17:26:45] <@myopia> i know they don't do this in all parts of the country
[17:27:18] <@myopia> but it was FUN going to meetings all over the state, "telling our stories", and freaking out the locals
[17:28:23] <@myopia> i believe that it will forever remain my favourite the time a guy in my group talked about masturbating in his mother's mink coat from the podium
[17:29:07] <@myopia> on the other hand, i've been to discussion meetings that accused me of violently attacking the women in the room for using the word "fuck"
[17:29:29] <@myopia> by people who had been sober for a hell of a lot shorter time than i had been
[17:29:40] <@myopia> fuck them, that's not what AA's about
[17:31:51] <@myopia> they usually ask you to be sober for at least 3 months before you speak
There are those who suggest: that in your first three months of sobriety that you go to lots of "beginner's meeting"; that if you go to step meetings, you neither speak on, nor ask questions about: anything but the first 3 steps Certainly in your first three months, to get the first step under your belt is a stellar accomplishment
That, unless you're in "imminent danger of picking up a drink", you NOT talk in open discussion meeting
Certainly, in early sobriety, for everyone's every waking moment, they're are in "imminent danger of picking up a drink" But if you can't say that in an open meeting, then you would be better served to speak one-on-one with someone after the meeting
They're more likely to understand what you're saying, and more likely to talk back to you There's nothing more crushing than sitting in an open discussion, in pain, screwing up all your courage to raise your hand, to wait what seems hours to be called on, only to have NO ONE respond to you or anything you said in any way
Don't let this surprise you or let you blame other people It's going through precisely THIS pain (because i know you're not listening to me now, and i wouldn't respect you if you did) that teaches you the benefit of getting yourself a sponsor
[17:32:08] <@myopia> but when we founded NA in rhode island, no one had yet had 3 months sobriety